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uglystick
Posts: 1799
4 Page Saab Build Update   Posted Thu Feb 5, 04   4:36 PM     

I took a trip over to the machine shop to check out the progress on the B motor. this is going in my dad's ghost flamed black 99ems, it's a 99turbo block with 9.25:1 coated forged ross racing pistons, total seal top ring, ross 2nd ring, hastings oil ring, crank main girdles, severely ported heads with huge valves, etc...we plan on running some flavor of a garrett gt series ball bearing snail.

the url's for the photos are first, then a big discussion of everything on the engine.

http://orionoutdoor.com/jason/recent/saabguts/saabguts.html

http://orionoutdoor.com/jason/recent/saabguts2/

more specific info:

valvetrain:

perfect casting head, pressure tested, etc. stainless steel custom cut intake & exhaust valves (manley), combustion chambers massaged to clear valves. they're the same size as the valves in a 307 olds i believe. at least one of them is. i'd have to get specifics at the shop. exhaust ports will be ceramic coated within the week. the intake ports are not polished, it's just that they were freshly finished and my flash was wreaking havoc. they're pretty damned smoothe, but there was enough grain in the last bit to really create excellent laminar flow into the bowl, the bowls are absolutely the most awesome part of the whole setup (well maybe the main girdles also :-).

the crank is a stock ems crank that had been nitrided from the factory!! this car was bought in fresno, california brand new by my dad and that crank is original. crank shop said don't touch it.

the flywheel is stock, resurfaced and balanced (prior to being balanced with the rotating assembly) the harmonic balancer was also rebuilt by a shop that specializes in hb's up in northern california. dad saw their operation and was impressed.

the rods were debeamed, rebushed, balanced end to end and re-shorn with arp studs.

the pistons are ross racing forged aluminum with anti-friction skirt coating and ceramic heat resistant crown coating. rings were mentioned in the last post.

whole rotating assembly was balanced to a gnat's ass on a sunnen digital balancer. and each part is individually balanced or matched. unfortunately we only had 4 rods to start with so we couldn't hen pick them. oh well, this thing is built like a panzer.

the block got a lot of special treatment, all oiling return passages in the block and head were deburred and enlarged, water jackets were deflashed at the deck and head. the main caps for the crank were milled flat and long arp block studs were installed to allow the use of billet maincap girdles. the block deck will be o-ringed this week to keep it from pooping the crib and blowing headgaskets.

there's so much to write. wish this were my car!

intake - the induction is up in the air right now. we have two options of disparate cost and disparate performance. one is to modify the stock intake manifold (cis) to use toyota supra 42lb/hr 4 hole injectors with denso connectors & custom rail and a toyota celica gts throttle and sensory system (tps, iac, map, etc. all on board plug and play). the other option is to have a carbon fiber intake engineered and fabricated for use with the same toyo hardware. don't get on my case about the denso junk, it was cheap, brand new and the injectors adapt in well.

just a note, by the time this car is 60,000 miles old i'll have sidedraft itb on this thing if we don't go carbon fiber.

the exhaust manifold is from a 900 h motor setup that will be ceramic coated in and out. turbo is undetermined but we're in the ballpark with a few different options. ball bearing, gt25 or bigger or maybe a turbonetics t3/t04b hybrid. the wastegate is a turbonetics deltagate and it also will run a turbonetics raptor adjustible blow off valve (routed back into the inlet air filter).

intercooling might get a little tricky. i want to run both air to air and water to air intercooling. solid traffic and daily driving cooling ability plus the ability for the ecu to kick the liquid circuit on if manifold air temp reaches a certain point. my dad is going to tig weld up a set of two air to air intercoolers to fit under a modified oem (or perhaps dealer/factory installed) air dam that the car came with. boost will go down and forward into these intercoolers then back into the throttle. perhaps through a water to air box where the oem airbox/battery was (i think the battery was forward left, correct?).

the engine management will be provided by a redline r882c ecu. nuff said. i am a warehouse distributor for redline weber fuel injection & sidedraft individual throttle body systems, so this was a no brainer. it's a powerful ecu (will fire 8 coils right off the board without ignitors) without many unnecessary bells and whistles, but power enough for you to create them all on you own.

it'll pump spark through a j&s safeguard per-cylinder knock retard box with coil per cylinder ignition. tricky thing (and what will allow us to market this hopefully with great success) is the crank and cam sensory system. with the power of the r882c ecu, we should be able to write algorithms for the divide by necessities to measure cam signal off of the auxilary jackshaft or the flywheel teeth for that matter. that's right around the bend and i'm excited about the development. Gould's Pro Cylinder Head & Performance Machine is doing the longblock (anything in the photos), and they're soon to acquire both an engine and chassis dyno so we should have some good developmental tools during the process.

the tranny is a 5 speed. but i want to play with the drive system. it's currently a chain drive. i want a fat assed gimler belt but that remains to be engineered. tilton clutch master/slave assembly may also be adapted up depending on how far we have to go to give this mill the electro-sensory perception it needs in terms of hall effect sensors.

we'll see. the long block from main girdles to valvecover should be on my engine stand at home soon so i can start measuring and contemplating adaptation of parts. other items like silicon filled harmonic balancers and limited slip differentials are in the works. i found a good slip for the 5 speed 900 trans and we'll probably end up using it until it grenades.

i am really glad to have the opportunity to work on this project. it really is something my dad has been talking about since i was a kid and the car went under a cover. for the longest time he talked about running it rear wheel drive. i'm really stoked that he decided to simply
go all out with the stock engine.

oh, it's got 900 suspenison under the body, no front sway but a good rear sway. and some tricked out bbs rims powdercoated black. we'll have to shoe some slicks onto the soccer balls!!! i love those rims.

i'll keep y'all posted.

jason
griffith & hurst coachworks




'75 BMW 3.0 CS (Resto Project)
'78 IH Scout II (Holley Pro-jection/MSD)
'85 Jaguar XJ-S (Chevy 383/700r4)
'87 BMW 535is/A (Q-Brick)
Gorgoth3k1

Posts: 544
Re: 4 Page Saab Build Update   Posted Thu Feb 5, 04   7:23 PM     

Man... that things gonna SCREAM... heh... can't wait to hear how this thing turns out man... keep up the badass work

Oh... and I got a turbo I was wondering if you could tell me how much its worth... Its MASSIVE to say the least... got it for a jet engine project a few friends of mine and i abandoned and now we want to sell it... Cummins Diesel ST-50 are the model numbers on it, i think... lemme know your email and i can send you a couple pictures using my cell fone as a size comparison...

-Daniel


-------------------------------------------------------------
"Bottles are for babies, real men get BLOWN!"

BLOWN 3800 V6 Fiero of Death
Phatmatt

Posts: 776
Re: 4 Page Saab Build Update   Posted Thu Feb 5, 04   11:42 PM     

That is easily going to be the most wicked saab or all time. You have GOT to keep me posted.

That Intercooler sounds like it's going to be a bitch though. I like to keep things far more simple, however I'm not quite the car masta' you are.

uglystick
Posts: 1799
Re: 4 Page Saab Build Update   Posted Fri Feb 6, 04   11:08 AM     

big turbo for jet engine - ie a pulse jet? if you have plans i'll buy the turbo maybe?

jason


'75 BMW 3.0 CS (Resto Project)
'78 IH Scout II (Holley Pro-jection/MSD)
'85 Jaguar XJ-S (Chevy 383/700r4)
'87 BMW 535is/A (Q-Brick)
Gorgoth3k1

Posts: 544
Re: 4 Page Saab Build Update   Posted Fri Feb 6, 04   1:55 PM     

I was gonna use it to build a pulse jet engine with an ignited after-burner.... This turbo's size makes it look like it came off an 18-wheeler... we were going to turn into into a jet turbine engine and mount it to a go-kart chassis ... hehe.... needless to say, buying this 3800SC motor has convinced me that i need the $$ and therefore i should sell it... right now i'm trying to gauge about how much it would be worth... I have a lot of shit thats gonna be going on ebay here pretty soon (cleanin out the shed), but i dont think a turbo this big would have that great of a market on ebay so we're lookin out for its worth and looking into alternate methods of selling it... friend of mine's also supposed to talk to a friend of his who is a trucker and see how much he thinks the turbo is worth... there is NO shaft play in the turbo at all... If any of y'all need parts, i have a few carbureators, BBC valve covers, cylinder heads, couple throttle-bodies... lots of random shit that i need to clear out...

so jason, you know 'bout how much this turbo might be worth? to say how big it is, the intake side of the turbo where the turbine thing-majig is (in the center of the snell, y'know?) is probably a good 4 inches across or more.. i can fit my entire hand into it.... lmk yer email and i can send you some pictures....

-Daniel


-------------------------------------------------------------
"Bottles are for babies, real men get BLOWN!"

BLOWN 3800 V6 Fiero of Death