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talljosh85
Posts: 221
Re: upgrades   Posted Sun Feb 29, 04   4:34 AM     

Allright, here is my opinion:
1. TT Supra, 1998 was the last year imported to the US and very hard to come by, plus very expensive and fast, stock. They are easily 11 second cars with a few thousand in bolt ons and simple electronics. I know, my dad drives one daily, and I have been fortunate enough to have driven it on several occasions and work on it, its a beautiful car, better built then the others, but an expensive coffin for the inexperienced driver. If you don't know what you're doing, and can't afford several thousand a year in just insurance plus the money to keep it running, stay away from it. Wait til you are older and have the $ to pay for it and the experience to drive it.
2. FD3S RX-7, my drug of choice. I got it when I was 16, (way too young in hindsight), and have had it since. Its a 1994, and in the few years that I've owned it, I have spent over $5,000 just keeping it running, not to mention about $2,000 dollars that will be spent on just rebuilding the motor this summer. Those figures do not includ registration, licensing, much less insurance or speeding tickets (which I have *earned*). Its a wonderful car, recieves upgrades well, and costs about half what a Supra with comparable mileage and wear does, but: it is arguably one of the most complex Japanese car to work on, the motor is very easy to blow up, they don't pass smog well, repairs and maintainence are very expensive, it MUST to be worked on by rotary specialists (no pep boys tune ups here), plus its almost as fast stock to stock to a TT Supra, making it a less expensive coffin to inexperienced drivers. It is nothing short of a miracle that I didn't kill myself or anyone else learning to drive the car. Stay away from it, unless you want a serious education in the workings of the car and an empty bank account. I love mine, but from what you're saying, you don't sound like a very knowledgable car guy, so its not for you. Sorry.
3. GSX/GST Eclipses- great cars, good looking, the 4G63 is a great motor to build up, and both generations (3rd gens don't count) are very happy to be upgraded. Although not as fast as the Supra or RX-7, these cars are not to be taken lightly, especially if they have been modified. Although not as complex as the RX-7 or Supra, both cars do require more attention and skill then on with a normally aspirated motor. They are also less expensive then the Toyota or Mazda, which does have its benefits. I would consider the GSX over the GS-T in that AWD is better for launching and more forgiving then FWD, especially in a high horsepower/poor road conditions case.
4. Civic Si-this is the car I would suggest for you. Cheaper, easier to maintain, not as quick, and in many respects safer then the others. It isn't going to run with most sports cars, but as a starter (for a year or two) its a great option. Well built, it gets out of its own way, will hold its value, and reliable, I think it would be the best car for you. You can learn to drive better on it, learn more about engines and the tuning world as a whole, and it looks good enough for the ladies. In my unprofessional opinion, go with it over the others until you have learned more about cars and how to work on them. The Bling factor isn't the same as a Supra or Seven, but its a great way to start.
Another option is to buy a normally aspirated 5 speed Supra, as they aren't slow, look great, are reliable and are a good place to learn how to drive a RWD sports car.
Well, those are my opinions, good luck and be careful when you are driving, don't get caught street racing, and wash behind your ears. Let everyone know what you end up getting, I'm interested to see what you pick myself. Josh

Dlauth
Posts: 34
Re: upgrades   Posted Mon Mar 1, 04   8:07 AM     

I am thinking now between the GSX or Civic.
I have another ? Which is better for a fast car less weight, more torque or hp? EXAMPLE(Should i get a car that is light but less torque and more hp or a car that is like 200lbs heavier but has lot more torque and less hp
A)I keep on hearing the eclipse doesnt have a real good tranny.
B)The civic is good and all but it just isnt fast enough

talljosh85
Posts: 221
Re: upgrades   Posted Tue Mar 2, 04   9:17 PM     

I vote to stick with the civic and study up on the GSX and then get a GSX, but don't rush it. They are pretty common (at least in California) so you should look around for one and learn as much as you can about them. Just search the internet for websites dedicated to them. Also, I assume you want a second gen GSX, and not a first gen? Don't worry so much about the Eclipse's tranny, if you get one with low enough miles in good condition the tranny should be allright, and you shouldn't be modding the hell out of it yet, so it should stand up to driving for a while at least. As far as cars are concerned 200lbs isn't a huge difference, but it does matter. However, it can be made up with more power (torque and horsepower). On a similar note, you should know that Horsepower is derived from torque, ie a dyno measures torque and using the engines rpm its horsepower is calculated. Ideally, you want good low end torque (higher torque number at a lower rpm) and high mid and top end horsepower (in the higher rpm ranges). As far as racing is concerned, you can make up for less torque in a lot lighter car, but torque is still a limiting factor for launching. Example, the Honda S2000 makes something like 240 hp and maybe 150ft/lbs of torque (I'm not sure exactly), and weighs around 2800lbs. The 3rd gen RX-7 makes about 255hp, 217ft/lbs of torque and also weighs about 2800 lbs. Both cars are high revving, small displacement, and their power bands (when the motor makes power) is at a higher RPM. However, because it has more torque and at a lower rpm, the RX-7 is a quicker car off the line and runs the quarter mile faster on average (stock to stock). Another point is that because the RX-7 makes more torque at a lower rpm, one can launch the car at a lower rpm and still get off the line quickly, whilst the S2000 must be launched at a higher rpm, which can lead to a complete loss of traction and an overrall slower launch. So overall, having a good balance of torque and horsepower is better then being very lopsided. Likewise, lots of torque isn't very helpful without the rpm (and thus horspower) to keep accelerating. IE, the new Chevy 3500 with the large diesel motor making something like 500ft/lbs of torque and a couple hundred horsepower, it can tow a lot, but it doesn't run 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. I hope that wasn't too confusing, I could get into the physics of it, but I don't know how much that would really help. Also, Horsepower=(rpm x torque)/5252, thus at 5252 rpm horsepower=torque. So stick with the civic, study the GSX, find one in good condition with great maintainence stock or close to stock (preferrebly), learn to drive it well, and then start modding it, slowly at first of course. Good luck, keep us updated how things turn out. Josh

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